Sorry Colts

[King87]

Originally Posted by MNPatsFan

No, I think he means Stanley Wilson, who played for the Bengals, and I believe had a critical mistake in the game.

No, I wish it was that simple. Stanley Wilson was a talented blocker at FB or even RB. He was a good runner in small doses. That year Cincinnati had an utterly brutal offense that tore people to shreds because of their running game and playaction passes. Wilson was a good player and important on the offense.

The night before the SB Wilson snorted cocaine. He had been a struggling addict. Paul Brown, who was still running the team at the time, was a large believer in redemption. He gave a lot of guys chances to change their life. The difference between him and his idiot son, our current owner, is that he had limits.

Wilson missed the game because Wyche wouldn't play him. That's something bitch boy Boomer Esiasion still cries about to this day. Knowing that if we had him blocking our chances to win would have improved a lot is painful, but I love Wyche because he's a real man and sat a cocaine addict who blew another chance at life.

I don't actually hate Wilson because I don't think he's a bad guy. He was a screw up but not a monster. I'm not saying he's a shining knight in armor, but he's a far cry from Rae Carruth or Pacman Jones.

[KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128]

I was soooo excited when manning was picked off for the TD.

[dogfish]

Colts greeted by 11 fans at airport
Posted by Michael David Smith on February 8, 2010 6:44 PM ET

When the Saints make their triumphant return to New Orleans for a victory parade on Tuesday, the crowds are expected to be so enormous that the city will be shut down for everything else.

When the Colts returned to Indianapolis today, they were greeted by a somewhat more subdued crowd.

According to the Indianapolis Star, a grand total of 11 people showed up at Indianapolis International Airport when the team returned this afternoon.

The 11 die-hard fans weren't allowed to get close to the players; they were held behind a security fence hundreds of feet away.

____________________________________


LMMFAO! what a horde of die-hard fans. . . .

they really turned out in support. . . . it sounds like a sscene out of major league. . .

[Northman]

Originally Posted by dogfish

Colts greeted by 11 fans at airport
Posted by Michael David Smith on February 8, 2010 6:44 PM ET

When the Saints make their triumphant return to New Orleans for a victory parade on Tuesday, the crowds are expected to be so enormous that the city will be shut down for everything else.

When the Colts returned to Indianapolis today, they were greeted by a somewhat more subdued crowd.

According to the Indianapolis Star, a grand total of 11 people showed up at Indianapolis International Airport when the team returned this afternoon.

The 11 die-hard fans weren't allowed to get close to the players; they were held behind a security fence hundreds of feet away.

____________________________________


LMMFAO! what a horde of die-hard fans. . . .

they really turned out in support. . . . it sounds like a sscene out of major league. . .

Wow, thats embarrassing.

[Nomad]

Originally Posted by Northman

Wow, thats embarrassing.

It is! I read people whining about the 'bandwagoners' of the Saints and how annoying the fans are(what team's fans aren't even some BRONCO fans are annoying), I guarantee if the Saints would have lost, there would have still been thousands of Saints fans greeting them back.

[Northman]

Originally Posted by Nomad

It is! I read people whining about the 'bandwagoners' of the Saints and how annoying the fans are(what team's fans aren't even some BRONCO fans are annoying), I guarantee if the Saints would have lost, there would have still been thousands of Saints fans greeting them back.

I keep saying to myself that cant be accurate but if it is it just blows my mind. I know it was a tough loss but man, they did play a hard fought game.

[Nomad]

Originally Posted by Northman

I keep saying to myself that cant be accurate but if it is it just blows my mind. I know it was a tough loss but man, they did play a hard fought game.

It sounds like something 'The Onion' would come up with!!

At least there are happy people in Indy about the Saints winning! 130,000 shirts a day shipped out, NO fans coming out of the woodwork as expected by any winning SB team!!

__________________________________________________ ________

Saints championship shirts made in Indianapolis
Posted by Michael David Smith on February 9, 2010 6:59 AM ET
Not everyone in Indianapolis is disappointed that the Colts lost the Super Bowl.

It turns out that hundreds of thousands of New Orleans Saints Super Bowl championship shirts are being made in the Adidas Group plant in Indianapolis. And since Saints memorabilia sells better than Colts memorabilia, the Saints' victory makes the folks at the plant very happy.

"From a business standpoint, the Saints' win is tremendous for us," the plant's general manager, Blake Lundberg, told the Indianapolis Star. "It will be a very nice long week for us."

In pre-orders, Saints Super Bowl merchandise was selling at four times the rate of Colts Super Bowl merchandise, and the plant in Indianapolis is expecting it to keep selling at huge volume through Mardi Gras. Plant employees will be working 12-hour shifts five days a week, making nothing but Super Bowl clothing, shipping out 130,000 shirts a day.

[MNPatsFan]

Originally Posted by King87

Manning has had a lot of talent around him on offense, but you can't tell me that Manning hasn't made a lot of players look better than they really are. Guys like Bernard Pollard, Brandon "Bengal Killer" Stokley, Pierre Garcon, Austin Collie and Ben Utecht come to mind.

Yeah, he's had his fair share of HOFers on offense. Edge should get some consideration, I'm not sure if he is a HOF back but I think most could agree he was an elite RB for several years. Dallas Clark is a tight end who will have a shot at the HOF and Reggie Wayne will have a shot at it IF he keeps up his current pace.

Marvin Harrison is simply one of the best WRs ever, until you get into the playoffs, then he's worthless. Did you factor that one in?

That's on the OFFENSIVE side of the ball. Then Manning has mostly had...Dwight Freeney. Mathis is a good player sometimes, Sanders is a tremendous safety except he's missed half of his games (give or take).

The Patriots won three SBs with a good offense and a great defense. The Steelers won two SBs with great defenses. That's half the SB's for this decade won by defensive teams. Both of those two teams had good offenses, but the trademark of their teams really were defense.

The Giants won a SB against the best offense of all time with a superb defense. That's six defensive teams that won the SB this decade. No, make that seven I forgot about the Bucs. No, make that eight, I forgot about Baltimore.

The two offensive teams that won SBs this decade were the Saints and the Colts.

Once again, most of those teams had capable offenses, but they were defensive teams.

The entire 'this is a pass friendly' league thing is true. Defense still wins championships, though.

Don't tell me that more QBs have done more with less, because in all honesty most haven't.

The 80 Niner teams had more talent on them than this Colt team. The Patriot teams of this decade had more talent on them as far as the TEAM goes. The same thing for the Steelers and the Cowboy dynasties.

Now please tell me that Peyton Manning wouldn't improve any of those teams. We already know that Manning is a much better passer than anyone in the history of the league. All those records Favre has are nothing more and nothing less than placeholders for Manning.

Elway couldn't win a SB until he got a stacked team. That's not his fault, he carried his good teams to a place where GREAT teams are supposed to be.

But when you look at the all-time greats, they all had stacked teams when they won the SB.

Look at what Brees had around him; he had a legitimate number one WR in Colston and then he had Jeremy Shockey at TE with maybe two or three other legitimate WRs who could be number two WRs. His offensive line was even better at blocking than Manning's line.

He was the better QB that day, there's no doubt about it, but if you win the SB you tend to have a tremendous team.

I wouldn't trade Brady for Peyton. I would and will continue to take Brady over Peyton, even though Brady is still recovering from his major knee reconstructive surgery. Brady almost beat Manning and the Colts in Indy this year even though: (1) Brady was clearly playing below his normal standards this season due his ongoing recovery from the knee surgery and (2) the Colts D was better than the Pats D this year.

Peyton has and probably will continue to put up gaudier stats and numbers than Brady in EVERY category except playoff wins and SB wins. I will take a great QB who doesn't put up amazing stats and numbers during the regular season but who wins playoff games and Super Bowls over a QB that puts up amazing stats and numbers during the regular season but only has a 9-9 playoff record (saw this stat on ESPN this morning). Are you kidding me, a 9-9 playoff record!! If Manning is the greatest QB of all time, he would have a much better playoff record than 9-9 because despite your claims he has had a lot of talent on both sides of the ball.

You can make all the excuses you want for Manning and his alleged lack of defensive help, but most of Peyton's playoff losses were due to Peyton's play rather than the play of the defense. In most, if not all, of Peyton's playoff losses to the Patriots, he threw multiple picks and his all pro offensive teammates turned the ball over at critical times costing the Colts the game rather than the defense playing poorly. Similarly, the Colts lost to the Steelers because of Peyton's turnovers and the high powered offense's mistakes, not because of the defense. Remember, Peyton threw his offensive line, not the defense, under the bus after that loss. Same goes for the Colts' playoff losses to the Chargers.

[King87]

Yeah, I understand your point MN. Peyton is worse because he couldn't get a defense to carry him to SBs. I mean if Peyton was good enough to have Ty Law basically win a SB for him and have Vinaterri kick SB winning FG's for him after the Panthers kicker boots one out of bounds after they tied the game he'd be a much better QB.

Oh, wait, damn.

Tom Brady played on better teams than Manning has. Brady's meant less to his team than Manning has. Without Brady your team went 11-5. That was the first time an 11-5 team missed the playoffs in...had that ever happened before?

It's funny you bring up the Steelers game. When his defense actually stepped up and forced a turnover he hit Reggie Wayne in the end zone to win the game, Wayne dropped it. Then his kicker missed a FG and they lost the game. Once again, if Manning was as good as Brady his kicker would have made the field go...oh wait....

Yeah, Manning ran into a dynasty that was the Patriots. However, do you really think that the Patriots would have lost if their QBs switched places? I would have loved to see how Brady would have played against his defense. I mean all Manning would have to do would be is just manage the game like Brady did for two of his Super Bowls.

The year that Brady was given an elite WR corp and an elite offensive line he couldn't win the big one. He only won SBs when his overall team was elite. The second he was put in the same situation as Manning he couldn't hack it. The second that his defense wasn't an elite unit but he had an elite offense he got schooled by the Giants in the SB.

That's the same situation that Manning has been in every last year.

I find it funny that people speak of Tom Brady so highly as this great playoff quarterback. For HALF of his career he was never asked to win the game. He managed the game. He's thought of as this great SB QB when in fact all of his 'comebacks' never were touchdowns, never were these epic drives down the field and always were won on the foot of a kicker.

I mean if Manning was a better QB he'd certainly go to Oakland and get some awesome officiating right?

Is this the same Tom Brady who again didn't have an elite defense and couldn't get out of the first round? Didn't Manning give the same Raven team that beat the Patriots a pretty sound whooping in the next round?

The fact of the matter is that Brady is finding himself in Manning's position. He's not getting anymore SBs because BB has too many holes on that defense to fill. When their careers are said and done people will look at Brady and realize that he was probably a first ballot HOF QB but who wasn't as integral to his team's success as Manning.

If Brady is better than Manning, Bradshaw is better than Brady. No one in their right mind would possibly think that Bradshaw is a better QB than Brady.

[Dr Velcro]

I'll get over this better than getting over my perfect season lost.

Saints were a good team to lose to & glad it was them.

Can't say they didn't deserve the win.

Not happy about Peyton Manning not shaking hands after.

That made me mad to hear.

I feel so bad for Saturday though....and Freeney. I love them.

I love all the guys, but Manning...yeah, I didn't like that. it was kinda classless and showed no respect at all for a team that fought as much as they did to get there.

He needs to be humbled. It's time for that I think.

[claymore]

Originally Posted by Dr Velcro

I'll get over this better than getting over my perfect season lost.

Saints were a good team to lose to & glad it was them.

Can't say they didn't deserve the win.

Not happy about Peyton Manning not shaking hands after.

That made me mad to hear.

I feel so bad for Saturday though....and Freeney. I love them.

I love all the guys, but Manning...yeah, I didn't like that. it was kinda classless and showed no respect at all for a team that fought as much as they did to get there.

He needs to be humbled. It's time for that I think.

He is a competitor. He probably went in the locker room and threw a couple trash cans around in private so he didnt make an ass out of himself.

I respect the crap out of Manning. The guy doesnt take losing well. Which is a great quality to have.

[MNPatsFan]

King, I am not going to respond to every point that you make but I will respond to several

Originally Posted by King87

It's funny you bring up the Steelers game. When his defense actually stepped up and forced a turnover he hit Reggie Wayne in the end zone to win the game, Wayne dropped it. Then his kicker missed a FG and they lost the game. Once again, if Manning was as good as Brady his kicker would have made the field go...oh wait....

King, I can play this game too. Peyton only made it to the Super Bowl that he won because Reche Caldwell dropped a TD pass that would have put the game out of reach from the Colts. Using your logic, Brady is the better QB because Peyton would have never won a SB if Reche Caldwell, like Wayne in the Steelers game, had not dropped the TD pass.

Originally Posted by King87

Yeah, Manning ran into a dynasty that was the Patriots. However, do you really think that the Patriots would have lost if their QBs switched places? I would have loved to see how Brady would have played against his defense. I mean all Manning would have to do would be is just manage the game like Brady did for two of his Super Bowls.

Brady did a lot more than just manage the games in the Super Bowls he won.
Rams game Pats ran 25 times and passed 27 times
Panthers game Pats ran 32 times and passed 48 times
Eagles game Pats ran 28 times and passed 33 times
Giants game Pats ran 16 times and passed 48 times

You will notice that the Pats passed more than they ran in every SB which is contrary to what would be the case if Brady was merely managing the game as you assert. Moreover, in the game against the Rams, which is really the only SB game you could potentially make an argument that Brady was managing the game, Brady was playing with an injured ankle. Neither one of us knows the severity of the injury, but you would expect a team to be more conservative and manage the game more to place a QB with an injured ankle in the best possible position.

Originally Posted by King87

The year that Brady was given an elite WR corp and an elite offensive line he couldn't win the big one. He only won SBs when his overall team was elite. The second he was put in the same situation as Manning he couldn't hack it. The second that his defense wasn't an elite unit but he had an elite offense he got schooled by the Giants in the SB.

King, I am not sure I would say that Brady got schooled by the Giants. He lead the Patriots to a TD to take the lead in the fourth quarter before the Giants made some amazing, and some might say fluky, plays that enabled the Giants to score a TD to retake the lead. Have to take your/my hat off to the Giants for making those plays. However, if you remember or look at the game recap, you see that Brady, unlike Peyton Manning, did not make a killer mistake by throwing an interception, let alone an interception that was returned for a touchdown essentially guaranteeing the loss.

Waits for it .......



Okay, King this is where I am sure you will try to absolve Peyton of any blame for the pick six he threw and place ALL the blame on Reggie Wayne as I have seen you do or try to do in other comments.

Originally Posted by King87

I find it funny that people speak of Tom Brady so highly as this great playoff quarterback. For HALF of his career he was never asked to win the game. He managed the game. He's thought of as this great SB QB when in fact all of his 'comebacks' never were touchdowns, never were these epic drives down the field and always were won on the foot of a kicker.

In all those games, Brady marched his team down the field to score the winning points. Do you honestly think the Rams, Panthers, or Eagles care that they lost by three points instead of four, seven or more?

Originally Posted by King87

Is this the same Tom Brady who again didn't have an elite defense and couldn't get out of the first round? Didn't Manning give the same Raven team that beat the Patriots a pretty sound whooping in the next round?

I like how you conveniently omit or forget that Brady played the entire season while still recovering from major knee surgery. Tell me King, how did Carson Palmer do the year/season after his major knee surgery and did the Bengals make the playoffs? How about the second or even third year/season post surgery and did the Bengals make the playoffs during any of those seasons after Carson Palmer's major knee surgery?

[King87]

Originally Posted by MNPatsFan

King, I am not going to respond to every point that you make but I will respond to several

I can honestly say that I look forward to this.

King, I can play this game too. Peyton only made it to the Super Bowl that he won because Reche Caldwell dropped a TD pass that would have put the game out of reach from the Colts. Using your logic, Brady is the better QB because Peyton would have never won a SB if Reche Caldwell, like Wayne in the Steelers game, had not dropped the TD pass.

True, however didn't Peyton's team have an equal amount of turnovers that game?

Brady did a lot more than just manage the games in the Super Bowls he won.
Rams game Pats ran 25 times and passed 27 times
Panthers game Pats ran 32 times and passed 48 times
Eagles game Pats ran 28 times and passed 33 times
Giants game Pats ran 16 times and passed 48 times

He threw a single touchdown against the Rams. That was his SB. Ty Law and your defense won that SB.

The Panthers game he played great, but once again, one of his epic moments was moving the ball down the field like 45 yards down the field and who kicked in the game winner?

And yeah his stellar 266 yards and one touchdown was an awesome game. He looked so awesome when his offensive line couldn't shield him perfectly for a game. This time he had to actually drive down the field for a touchdown to not lose the game. Ouch.

You will notice that the Pats passed more than they ran in every SB which is contrary to what would be the case if Brady was merely managing the game as you assert. Moreover, in the game against the Rams, which is really the only SB game you could potentially make an argument that Brady was managing the game, Brady was playing with an injured ankle. Neither one of us knows the severity of the injury, but you would expect a team to be more conservative and manage the game more to place a QB with an injured ankle in the best possible position.

Managing the game doesn't mean you run the ball more, it means you're not asked to win the game. For instance, in this SB you saw that the Colts and the Saints were trying to move the ball down the field mainly with passes. Just like your offense did. The difference is that both the saints and the colts were far more aggressive. I.E. more of an onus was put on them.

King, I am not sure I would say that Brady got schooled by the Giants. He lead the Patriots to a TD to take the lead in the fourth quarter before the Giants made some amazing, and some might say fluky, plays that enabled the Giants to score a TD to retake the lead. Have to take your/my hat off to the Giants for making those plays. However, if you remember or look at the game recap, you see that Brady, unlike Peyton Manning, did not make a killer mistake by throwing an interception, let alone an interception that was returned for a touchdown essentially guaranteeing the loss.

This is where I point you to his stat line.

Waits for it .......

What are we waiting for? Is it a burger? Fries?

Okay, King this is where I am sure you will try to absolve Peyton of any blame for the pick six he threw and place ALL the blame on Reggie Wayne as I have seen you do or try to do in other comments.

Nope. He threw the ball. I don't recall absolving him of that throw at all. If I did please show me.

In all those games, Brady marched his team down the field to score the winning points. Do you honestly think the Rams, Panthers, or Eagles care that they lost by three points instead of four, seven or more?

No, I don't think that they care. What I do know is that when it comes down to dissecting a career you look at everything. Just going "Brady has more rings so he's better," doesn't cut it.

I like how you conveniently omit or forget that Brady played the entire season while still recovering from major knee surgery. Tell me King, how did Carson Palmer do the year/season after his major knee surgery and did the Bengals make the playoffs? How about the second or even third year/season post surgery and did the Bengals make the playoffs during any of those seasons after Carson Palmer's major knee surgery?

Palmer was a stud. He threw 28 TDs and 13 INTs, 4000 yards, completed 58% of his passes, etc etc etc.

Now he is only above average. Glad to know that Palmer is the measuring stick of a QB's greatness.

[WTE]

Originally Posted by Nomad

It is! I read people whining about the 'bandwagoners' of the Saints and how annoying the fans are(what team's fans aren't even some BRONCO fans are annoying), I guarantee if the Saints would have lost, there would have still been thousands of Saints fans greeting them back.

Prior to the game the City of New Orleans said win or lose there will be a parade.

ESPN is gonna broadcast the parade @ 6:00 ET. I will enjoy watching it.

[WTE]

Originally Posted by King87

Wilson missed the game because Wyche wouldn't play him. .

Sam Wyche. One of my favorites. I loved it when he addressed the Cincy crowd and said "You don't live in Cleveland, you live in Cincinnati!"

Funny as hell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJMa2...eature=related